conuly: (Default)
[personal profile] conuly
Now, back when I first binge-watched all available Steven Universe eps I had a few thoughts, but I decided to wait until the current season had ended before posting. And now I'm pretty sure it has, so here we go.

1. So many of the Homeworld Gems we've met express shock at the very idea of rebelling. And yet, there seem to be an awful lot of soldiers for this unified society. Exactly how unusual is rebellion, really?

1a. Of course, when you scratch the surface, most of those Gems seem extremely stifled. So yeah.

2. How can they be ignorant of their own potential? Peridot not knowing about her ability is a key example, but hardly the only one. Sapphire not knowing that the future isn't set - and apparently, that information still isn't widely available? They're a fairly old civilization. How can they not know these things?

3. (And I'm still not sure what-all Homeworld knows and understands about fusion with more than one type of gem.)

4. So, I don't think it's morally wrong for Homeworld to want to perpetuate its culture and society to future generations. And yes, without expansion, hello Malthus! Obviously, look at Peridot! But did they really have to go to a planet that was already inhabited? Surely it would've been easier to go to someplace empty, especially since they don't need air or any other of those basic creature comforts.

5. What the heck is up with Onion?

Date: 2017-05-15 01:52 am (UTC)
elynne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elynne
1. It seems to me like they have (or had?) another enemy, one that's nasty enough to require their civilization to become that militaristic. Or it might have been a nasty civil war that shaped their current civ, and they're long-lived enough that they just can't let go of the habits. I've wondered this a lot too...

2. I think that goes back to being stifled; I suspect most Gems don't do much, or much new stuff.

3. And again, most Gems don't have reason or opportunity to try--and they have a very strong cultural aversion to the idea, like it's been deliberately suppressed. Maybe something to do with 1.?

4. Yeah, I don't know about that either. I wonder how many other sentient species they've exterminated to further their own...

5. NO CLUE. He's creepy. D:

Date: 2017-05-15 03:32 pm (UTC)
elynne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elynne
Ooooh, yeah, very good point. And several times I've thought "oh that's just a throwaway bit of the show's background, they'll never explain it," and then there's an entire episode about that obscure detail... so while I'm trying not to expect there to be explanations for all this, I can't help expecting there to be explanations for all this! XD

Date: 2017-05-15 02:36 am (UTC)
sovay: (Rotwang)
From: [personal profile] sovay
They're a fairly old civilization. How can they not know these things?

I assume most of them aren't allowed to. They're a fairly old dystopia.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:34 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
I'm reminded of how people described Old World China before the Brits conquered it. It had all the resources and talent to weaponize and innovate great things out of so many discoveries they already made, but neglected them because they were comfortable already as the alpha dog of a trading empire. That's why they could never predict that elsewhere their same innovations were being perfected greater and greater.

Actually, now that I think about it, this was a common issue with some of the other great empires of their day as well.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:46 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Guy Eats Magazine)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
To be honest? Most empires never do until it's too late to fix the problem. I mean, the Romans never realized they were conquered until it was too late and during WWI, other countries recognized the Ottoman Empire was on its last legs but refused to acknowledge it.

I know one benchmark is when a civilization remains fixated on the same thing that made it great and never accepts innovation. Of course, the countries that do then manage to find it instead and reap all the profit as a result...

Date: 2017-05-15 03:34 pm (UTC)
elynne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elynne
Yeah, gosh, that sounds... uncomfortably familiar.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:32 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Jamie Impersonation)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
1. I can not imagine rebellion at all. When I hear the snippets on how gem society work, I can't help but think of how it follows a similar logic like that of Flatland where sides reflect status and roles in society and how their logic takes one that seems to thrive around geometry.

With that in mind, I believe that their society is not unlike the crystals they form: uniform and based around growing out the same way crystalization does.

There's only mention of three diamonds, so I always assumed that what Rose Quartz did was kill the very foundation of that crystalized order. The way I say it to Michelle, it's the equivalent of killing a living god and, perhaps like all stories of god killers, they have become little more than blasphemers left to die.

I also posited my own theories that it may have even been an order by Pink Diamond, as we still have yet to see another Rose Quartz. To be fair, we have yet to see a lot of different crystals in this world, but in a composition basis from the real world, quartz is not that far off from diamonds and the major difference stems from pressure. But I could also be wrong. It definitely seems that the Diamonds themselves represent different emotions that are linked with their hues, so if Pink Diamond follows the same concept, then she might have been a crystal that fixated on love. Hell, Rose Quartz seemed to be so fascinated towards new things that Rose Quartz may even *be* the original Pink Diamond that sought to remove her old persona once and for all and truly appreciate things anew (Rose is, after all, someone who seems to love embracing new ideas and things). This is all speculation though, and Rebeccah Sugar may have entirely different ideas around her creation, so I'm more than willing to throw this all away.

2. I think their society is just so... fixated because they are. They live in certain degrees of perfection and exist in a fascist state where everyone has a given role and is measured based on an ideal criteria. For example, in the prison colony we see that Earth is full of jaspers and quartzes that are all misshapen and basically treated like the motley "F troop" of gem society. Jasper herself, however, was treated like a great warlord because everything about her was engineered and resulted in perfection.

Remember, when Rose met Greg, she was fascinated by him because he was a free spirit. He came with no rules, had no responsibilities, and if he didn't have a kid he would probably have been comfortable dying a beach bum in a small town. Everything about him was fascinating to her because he didn't follow rules and did things that weren't always to his benefit. As a result, no one really thought outside of the box.

This is why Garnet is herself so unique, as mixed rankings of gems alone would seem shocking in an ordered society like their own, but because of them, they take on their best qualities. Jasper's own fusion was not one from wanting to think outside the box, but replicating the same results.

3. This is, again, I think a result of a stifled society not willing to think outside the box.

4. I think it's been suggested that they came before humankind really even was there, but I could be wrong. The fact that most gems seem to think of them as little more than side effects of their gem building made me inclined to believe that. I also don't think they really have a culture, or if they do, it's one simply of expansion for the sake of expansion.

5. Now this is something I will never know. I'm waiting for him to Kevin Smith us at the end and narrate everything.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:40 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
I also realized I never answered your first question about rebellion or warriors. I honestly think that if there are dissenters, they would have been stamped down; their society is too hardened to do otherwise. Rose's fighting chance likely came from the fact that Pink Diamond's death somehow united people to her cause (another reason why I think she is actually a rebirth of Pink Diamond unless the feedback from killing a god of that magnitude was that strong (I'm also assuming there was feedback because of the taint that seems to have infected the other gems)).

If there was an old enemy, they would have been stamped out by now. Yellow Diamond seems so militaristic that I think she would obsess more over it and make mention. It could be that militarism is there because it reflects the uniform order of crystals themselves, like their own organic way of thinking that certain things must follow a specific order and that they must be groomed that way to meet maximum performance.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:49 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
I think I'm going to need to backtrack on old episodes to see the other rose quartzes though since she just seems so... unique. Though in all honesty, it could just be because we have yet to see any blue or yellow quartzes as well (which I know should exist and if they do in this world, they might reflect an elite guard of sorts, perhaps?)

I missed the white diamond and it would make sense one would exist. In this sort of perfection-based society, I imagine the white diamond would be the most powerful of them all and might be the "end boss" of this series.

I think you must be mistaken, because Pink Diamond was collecting humans for her zoo during the original occupation.

Ahhhh, my mistake! I interpreted it as her taking them as she was processing the planet.

Edit: God damn it, I also realized this could also mean that Pink Diamond was also interested in the humans as a result. Something about it just makes me think back to Rose again since she also shared that same fascination.
Edited (re-added a new comment into this because double posting is bad form.) Date: 2017-05-15 03:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-05-15 04:37 am (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
Your thoughts made me look up to see if anyone has a screenshot of other rose quartz(es?), and instead all i got were a bunch of theories that prove I'm not the only one that is thinking this theory. I have to admit, this is not helping my anticipation for the next arc!

Some remarks that did stick out for me though that seemed to make me wonder was:

-there is a good possibility she might be the only one anyway because the idea of a quartz killing a diamond is just that blasphemous. Which makes a lot of sense.

-concurrently, it is also pointed out that she was practically the most powerful of the group. Bear in mind that Jasper is insanely stacked in terms of power, but still talks about how Rose defeated her like it was nothing. Quartzes are soldier class tanks, but still merely soldiers so I can't help but wonder if this does reflect the theory she is the diamond.

It would also explain Pearl's devotion to Rose as the only pearls we've seen were handservants to diamonds it seems. I mean, the reasons for devotion may be different, but... Yeah.

I really should stop, this is just going to make me tear my hair out waiting for the next arc and its possibilities, hah!

Date: 2017-05-15 12:55 pm (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
Ugh, forgot about that scene with Sapphire, thanks for that!

Date: 2017-05-15 07:29 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
Found you a screenshot of bubbled Rose Quartzes (with Stephen and Greg far below, staring up at them). And here's a wide shot of the room. So yeah, there were tons of them. All bubbled as punishment for secondhand blasphemy.

The idea of Rose being Pink Diamond somehow was really popular for a while, so a lot of those posts are still around. But by now we know they were both active on Earth the same time, fighting against each other.

The Gem base on the Moon had four Diamond murals -- Pink, Yellow, Blue, and White. It's really conspicuous how White is still unaccounted for. Blue and Yellow are allies, and we've seen that they both have custody of some of Pink's former subjects. White hasn't even been mentioned. If Homeworld is in a civil war, she's my first guess for the leader of the opposition.

All the Homeworld gems we've seen so far are either on military missions or acting as guards. It's not surprising they have mostly soldier-types in those situations. I hope in the next arc we find out whether Homeworld society is more balanced overall.

...although frankly, no matter what we learn about Homeworld, the show and its worldbuilding have been so consistently satisfying that I'm sure it'll be great.

Date: 2017-05-15 12:48 pm (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
Thanks! God, I completely forgot about that Sapphire origin story too, I probably shouldn't even make these speculations.

I can see the military association with them being offsite too, as it would explain why they let a Peridot go solo (though even if they practically "nuked" earth with that light, just seems unwise with all the monsters they became too).

Something has to have gone wrong in Homeworld though, as Lapis did suggest that everything's changed. WD does seem like a verifiable bogeyman, just that there's so many other ideas to play with here too.

Date: 2017-05-15 03:41 pm (UTC)
elynne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elynne
I had somehow completely missed the White Diamond thing. That... changes my personal theories a bit. OH JEEZ I LOVE THIS SHOW XD

Date: 2017-05-15 10:57 am (UTC)
gaudior: (Default)
From: [personal profile] gaudior
Looks like there's still three more eps of the season to go-- or rather, one big one containing four eps, including "Stuck Together," which will be released on the 29th!

I am rather excited by this. Grin.

Also, I really appreciate the discussion of your point 1. With all these soldiers, they have to have had an enemy at some point, and the idea that they just couldn't get rid of the soldiers once they had them makes a distressing lot of sense.

Date: 2017-05-15 12:56 pm (UTC)
zesty_pinto: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zesty_pinto
For the sake of my sanity, thank you for sharing!


conuly: (Default)

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